The launch of dialog() in 2024 as a touring exhibition dedicated to East Asia’s generative art scene had an ambitious itinerary that included Tokyo, Taipei, Seoul, and Beijing. Despite being unable to realize the final Beijing leg of the tour, the global influence of artists of Chinese origin is undeniable. While creators such as Licia He, Emily Xie, and Xin Liu are all based in Western countries, information about China’s vibrant art scene seldom reaches international audiences beyond stars such as Raven Kwok and Reva Fan. 

Yet Asian cultures share a unique proximity, influencing one another despite linguistic differences. As the dialog() project evolved, its curatorial team recognized the impossibility of addressing Asia’s digital art landscape without acknowledging the distinctive context of contemporary China. Through our discussions of China’s generative art scene, one name that consistently emerged was Mr Wu (Wu Yishen) otherwise known as With, the collector and founder of MUD Gallery. Here he discusses the growth potential of China’s digital art ecosystem with Noriaki Nakata.

‍Noriaki Nakata: MUDigital is synonymous with digital art in China and you have played a huge role in setting that history in context. How did you become a patron of the arts and, specifically, of generative art?

‍With: I come from a family with a long history in traditional Chinese painting and calligraphy. In 2024, the China Art Museum in Shanghai held an exhibition for my great-grandfather, Wu Hufan. Coincidentally, this was also the time when MUDigital hosted the first solo exhibition in China for Casey Reas, who also enjoyed the exhibition of Hufan very much.

‍NN: What was your introduction to generative art and how has your relationship with this art form evolved over time?

‍W: During my high school years, my hobby was mathematics. Through books by Qi Dongxu — a pioneer of computer graphics and fractal theory, also a close friend of Hans Dehlinger — I first encountered generative art. Mr Qi is someone I am very eager to share with the world. 

Back then, there were almost no galleries in China dedicated to exhibiting and selling generative art, so it was difficult to comprehend its history here. I was introduced to Flash around the turn of the millennium, devoting nearly all my time to mastering generative art while I majored in Sociology. Thanks to the internet, I encountered the work of Casey Reas and John Maeda. 

At the time, my favorite artist was Jared S. Tarbell and I downloaded nearly all of his open-source works. In 2023, I was invited to give a lecture on the history of generative art at the Central Academy of Fine Arts in China, so I took the opportunity to reorganize my old works, which I am keen to introduce to Chinese audiences. The theme of the Information Age is going to be an increasingly important part of my focus and collection because, in my view, mankind has the greatest need to recognize it systematically right now. 

We don’t need to teach those 20 years younger than us how to use the internet. Instead, we should help them understand its place in art history.

Jared S. Tarbell, Environment, 2022. Courtesy of the artist

‍NN: What regulatory considerations do you need to consider when planning exhibitions of digital art in China?

‍W: Like many countries, exhibitions in China require approval from relevant government departments. Therefore, any digital artist who is planning to exhibit here should be aware of this. Currently, China prohibits cryptocurrencies, so, at this stage, it is actually a very favorable period for academic exchange in galleries. We might focus more on sharing digital art history, promoting, and establishing long-term participation and creative concepts. In fact, I believe this could be the best time for such initiatives.

‍NN: Artistic innovation often flourishes within constraints, so I can see that China’s regulatory environment is also an opportunity to focus on digital art’s historical, less commercial, foundations. As an artist yourself, what led you to establish MUD Gallery and the MUDigital program?

‍W: My first exhibition back in 2006 was actually at the current location of MUD Gallery, which was then called Eastlink Gallery. In the early 2000s, Eastlink hosted some very important exhibitions of Chinese contemporary art. In 2006, my generative art was included in an exhibition titled “Expanding Turning Point 2” along with a published catalog. I was very happy and proud at the time, as I may be one of the earliest recorded artists in China to participate in an exhibition of generative art. The gallery owner, Mr Li Liang, collected one of my artworks and inspired me to start MUD Gallery, which supports and shares digital art of the Information Age. 

‍NN: Which contemporary Chinese generative artists do you represent or consider significant in the field?

‍W: First, Raven Kwok is a very important generative artist at our gallery who will be familiar to many of our peers in Europe and the US. He is one of the best artists in China today. We held solo exhibitions of his work in 2022 and 2023, and we plan to have another exhibition for him in 2025, which might be open source.

‍NN: What is your vision for promoting digital art history in China?

‍W: At present, MUDigital is concerned with the entire Information Age as well as internet culture, so we are starting to share and promote different digital artists. Last year, we held an exhibition of works by Hans Dehlinger titled “Line Art” along with another, “Digital Poetry” comprising works by two of the Algorists, Jean-Pierre Hébert and Roman Verostko. Not many are aware of the long-standing connections of Hans Dehlinger and Roman Verostko with China, which is what makes them perfect candidates to introduce Chinese audiences to the history of computer art. While it was Hébert who pioneered the use of code along with the plotter to express Zen aesthetics. His work, Travelers Among Streams and Mountains, Earth Tones (1997) is one of my favorite works of generative art.

Last year, we also held a solo exhibition of works by Shi Zheng, which reflects our expanded focus on AI in addition to generative art. In my view, Zheng’s Frosty Morning (2018-onwards) series, which uses GANs (generative adversarial networks) is one of the most important works of AI art in China. I believe that we have made a good start with regard to AI art, exhibiting works by Mario Klingemann, William Latham, Jennifer and Kevin McCoy, Niceaunties, Roope Rainisto, and Anne Spalter as part of the group exhibition “Imagine Today,” curated by Anika Meier for EXPANDED.ART.

China is a very promising digital art hub. We just need a bit more patience and preparation. Computer art has existed for more than 60 years and I believe its heyday is still to come; we don’t need to rush.

‍NN: What can you tell us about your collection?

‍W: Currently, my collection maintains a ratio of 80:20 traditional art to digital art, while our exhibitions are broadly 50:50. However, digital art occupies more than 80% of my focus, since it is my personal hobby. 

‍NN: Digital art demands constant adaptation to stay vibrant in a world of advancing technology. What perspective do you adopt when selecting works of generative art?

‍W: Just as it’s difficult to depict the entire Mandelbrot set with a few hundred points, understanding the structure of the Information Age requires going back to the earliest computers. 

To me, generative art is the poetry of code, precious for its simplicity and beauty. 

In China, poets have enjoyed lofty status for thousands of years. Painters often celebrate the influence of poets, but perhaps only a few people truly understand poetry. For many years, there has been a similar trend in the computer art world. Prominent generative artists, though they may not have achieved commercial success, have always garnered respect. Whether this situation continues depends largely on the actions of the generative art community.

I tend to choose artists who stand out for their importance to a given period or movement, and for their quality, uniqueness, and influence. In ancient Greece, leisure was an important part of the academy, and I see it as key to improving quality and fostering continuous innovation. Clearly internet traffic also has its place, but I am not so skilled in that domain. As a gallery practitioner, I believe that generative art is in its maturation phase.

‍NN: Which are your preferred digital art platforms and what are your thoughts on the evolution of AI art in the collecting space?

‍W: I really like Feral File as the quality is always very high with many artists I particularly like. In its first year, Jason Bailey (Artnome) curated a group show, “Field Guide,” that included Jared S. Tarbell. That made me very happy because I was finally able to collect eight pieces by the same artist whose open-source work I was downloading 20 years ago. I have also collected works by Sage Jenson there. 

As for AI art, although I started paying attention to GANs around 2018, it wasn’t until this year that I began to dive deeper into it. I’m especially drawn to the style of Singaporean artist Niceaunties, whose work, Goddess (2024), I have collected. All of her series are excellent. Of course, I haven’t fully grasped AI art yet, but I hope that some outstanding creators will emerge in China. I believe that this will also bring digital art collecting to a new level, with galleries and the internet forming a more coherent mechanism.

‍NN: What is MUD Gallery’s position in the Shanghai art scene and how you view the relationship between traditional and digital art forms?

‍W: Because of my family background and the prior activities of Eastlink, MUD Gallery already has a reputation in Shanghai, while our space is rooted in the Chinese art world. The M50 art district, where MUD is located, is well-known in Shanghai, and we also collaborate with excellent painters such as He Saibang and have exhibited works of the Japanese mono-ha movement. For me, the industrial associations of plotters and screens can complement works in traditional media. 

We already live in a semi-digital state, so this is what galleries should look like in the future. AI will undoubtedly accelerate the process.

‍NN: Finally, what can you tell us about your forthcoming book on the history of digital art in China?

‍W: At the moment, we are planning to support the curator Iris Long in developing a book about Chinese electronic art, which should include a section on generative art. We will sponsor the project, but in terms of content, we respect the decisions of participating scholars and researchers. We hope that the book will get your attention when it is published.